Curse

Evilsod · Jun 16, 2007, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Critical Agility.

Ironically the skill we've always wanted is an Assassin PvE only Sunspear Skill.

Downside is its an enchantment. But it lasts for (based on rank10 Sunspear) 15 seconds. Renews on critical hit and gives you +25 armour.

If only our skill had bene more useful... instead of that Rampage as One rip-off...

XvArchonvX · Jun 16, 2007, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Yea, the Luxon skill looks nice, but the Sunspear ranger skills is not something I see using often. I haven't tried out Crit Agility on a ranger yet, but it's an AWESOME skill on a dervish. Crit Agility should be a good skill for a Paragon with GFtE however.

Evilsod · Jun 16, 2007, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Yeah it is lacking a little on Ranger because of the slower attack speed. But the chance of a critical does seem to be reasonably high on Savage Shot. But considering it will last 15 seconds, give +25 armour and recharge. I can see it been better off used with Barrage, especially with a Hornbow.

Amy Awien · Jun 16, 2007, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Roughly calculating ... Triple Shot isn't so hot either, 10 sec recharge, -30% damage, essentially that is 200% or the damage of one arrow every 10 seconds, or +20%. Hurray.

The IAS skill would outdamage it (+33% damage), but it's huge disadvantage is that it takes 3 skillslots for a 25E, 25% IAS. And it doesn't even count as 'fuel' for Enraged Lunge

And that Assasin skill, wow, +20AL and 33% IAS, non-stop, this sounds too good, just as the Dervish. No, there's something not completely balanced about these skills.

ArKaiN · Jun 16, 2007, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Roughly calculating ... Triple Shot isn't so hot either, 10 sec recharge, -30% damage, essentially that is 200% or the damage of one arrow every 10 seconds, or +20%. Hurray.

The IAS skill would outdamage it (+33% damage), but it's huge disadvantage is that it takes 3 skillslots for a 25E, 25% IAS. And it doesn't even count as 'fuel' for Enraged Lunge

And that Assasin skill, wow, +20AL and 33% IAS, non-stop, this sounds too good, just as the Dervish. No, there's something not completely balanced about these skills.

Care to add a calculation on DPS with kindle arrows+Nightmare weapon+Triple shot?

LifeInfusion · Jun 16, 2007, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Triple shot is only worth if you have +damage preparations and possibly conjures since those will cause the skill to overcompensate for the decrease in damage.

QoH · Jun 16, 2007, 05:58 PM // 17:58

they should tweak triple shot this way:
First arrow inflicts deep wound 5..10sec
Second ... Dazed 5..10sec
Third ... Burning 5..10sec

Would be kinda nice overpowered isn't it?

Amy Awien · Jun 16, 2007, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArKaiN

Care to add a calculation on DPS with kindle arrows+Nightmare weapon+Triple shot?

No, not really, a rough calculation should be enough, but feel free to go into details yourself.

With a flatbow and triple shot you get, in 10 seconds, 3 arrows at 70% damage (tops) and 4 normal arrows, for a total of 610% in 10 seconds. The 25% IAS gets to fire 6 arrows, 600%, in 9 seconds. The IAS would end up a bit ahead

Nightmare weapon steals about 120 HP in one Triple Shot, which has it's own application and the damage reduction is effectively removed, 120 HP + 400% in 10 seconds. The IAS gets the 120 HP from NmW plus 3 arrows, 120 HP + 300% and that would put Triple Shot ahead of the IAS when using nighmare weapon.

Hope this helps.

On a side note, Dual Shot reduces all damage, including bonus damage. I've assumed Triple Shot does the same. Only tests could show if damage that assumption is correct. If it doesn't reduce bonus damage it would become a whole lot more interesting.

Evilsod · Jun 16, 2007, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Yeah Triple Shot is a little dodgy... although i was having fun earlier with it and Glass Arrows, guildy was using Mark of Pain/Barbs which makes for some nice damage.

I'm having a go with Never Rampage Alone atm. Using an R/P Spear build and the There's Nothing to Fear with Stunning Strike as the elite. Its not too bad actually. Of course this is probably the only use NRA will ever actually have aslong as it needs a pet to be activated... But at least it means you don't need your elite slot and don't need to actually spec in BM to use it.

XvArchonvX · Jun 17, 2007, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Yeah Triple Shot is a little dodgy... although i was having fun earlier with it and Glass Arrows, guildy was using Mark of Pain/Barbs which makes for some nice damage.

I'm having a go with Never Rampage Alone atm. Using an R/P Spear build and the There's Nothing to Fear with Stunning Strike as the elite. Its not too bad actually. Of course this is probably the only use NRA will ever actually have aslong as it needs a pet to be activated... But at least it means you don't need your elite slot and don't need to actually spec in BM to use it.

Using both Never Rampage with Nothing to Fear sounds a bit energy heavy. I assume that Nothing to Fear is not affected by Expertise. Is Ferocious Strike your elite?

Evilsod · Jun 17, 2007, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Nah i was using Stunning Strike. I was about to use Ferocious Strike. Then it dawned on me that to use it i would've had to spec more in Beast Mastery... whereas it was just easier to spec more in Expertise.

It wasn't actually that bad. 9 energy cost on NRA once every 25 seconds. Spear of Fury cost only 2e, and i could apply frequent Bleeding, Deep Wound and Dazed onto targets, using a Zealous mod of course. You have to get use to managing it (helps if the pet dosen't die too much). And yes TNTF isn't effected by Expertise so it still costs 15e, but i managed to use it reasonably often, half the time i was waiting on energy, but with a constant 25% IAS zealous spear been thrown could usually regen that quite quickly, but that was only in the battles where i figured we really needed TNTF to be up as much as possible like bad lures or large mobs + bosses.

Either way, the build was: Merciless Spear, Stunning Strike, Barbed Spear, Spear of Fury, There's Nothing to Fear, Never Rampage Alone, Comfort Animal, Charm Animal.

16 Expertise, 12 Spear Mastery

Its not all that strong vs the attackers since it has no added damage (you could always use Cruel Spear and take another adren skill if you wanted) but i was focusing more on anti-cast with utility. The combo is a bit obvious, Barbed > Spear of Fury > Stunning Strike/Merciless Spear. Will be better if Allegiance was a higher level for the +xx damage and the adren gain though (Sunspear was at max).

Sir Mad · Jun 17, 2007, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

On a side note, Dual Shot reduces all damage, including bonus damage. I've assumed Triple Shot does the same. Only tests could show if damage that assumption is correct. If it doesn't reduce bonus damage it would become a whole lot more interesting.

Dual Shot doesn't reduce the damage from preparations like Kindle or Ignite - I haven't tested with RtW but I assume it's the same...

XvArchonvX · Jun 17, 2007, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Either way, the build was: Merciless Spear, Stunning Strike, Barbed Spear, Spear of Fury, There's Nothing to Fear, Never Rampage Alone, Comfort Animal, Charm Animal.

16 Expertise, 12 Spear Mastery

That looks like an interesting build, I'll have to try it sometime.

As for Triple Shot, the skill is like Dual Shot in that it really is a very lackluster skill unless you use a lot of buffs. Base damage on a bow is usually pretty weak, especially in harder areas against high level foes, so a reduction on each arrow means very little when a great deal of it's damage comes from preparations/enchantments. Since the damage reduction is only to the base arrow damage and not the buffs, shooting multiple arrows at once, even with less base damage, gives a greater net damage increase.

Amy Awien · Jun 17, 2007, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Actually, you're right, prep damage isn't reduced. Don't know where I got that idea from, must have had it mixed up with some other skill. With prep damage coming trice, it's a more interesting skill.

Evilsod · Jun 17, 2007, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Its still not particularly great though. Its 10 second recharge has alot to be desired for a start. I would be quite happy if it got its recharged reduced so it was actually a good choice rather than just an ok choice. Since it costs 1 energy if you use a Zealous bow and 14 Expertise ^^

Although it will definatly be on my bar for FoW farming. Nothing quite beats more arrows when things are weak to the element.

Spidey · Jun 18, 2007, 12:53 AM // 00:53

I was looking at CA and wondered if it would make a nice build for interrupts, burning with a possible added degen of bleeding (example v.s. Varesh in Ruins of Morah).

Equipment, +20% enchants shortbow or recurve, rune of major/sup vigor, sup wilderness, maj marks, minor expertise.

Wilderness = 16 (12 + 3 + 1)
Marks = 12 (10 + 2)
Expertise = 8
14 unused

or (misses break point for 5 energy skils to increase chance of critical)
Wilderness = 16 (12 + 3 + 1)
Marks = 13 (11 + 2)
Expertise = 7
5 unused

Serpent's Quickness
Critical Agility
Incendiary Arrows
Distracting Shot
Screaming Shot/Hunters Shot
Pin Down (may be too costly, but shortbow's accuracy isn't the best)

Whirling Defense/Troll Unguent
Rez

Use: Cast Serpents Quickness, Critical Agility, and then Incendiary Arrows. At level 9 Sunspear and 20% enchants CA should last for the 16 seconds of Incendiary, longer if you critical. Attacks with a shortbow are 1 second, with a recurve 1.2 seconds. Use Screaming or Hunter's to start bleedinig. You'll get a 2nd recast out of IA before Serpents runs out. Distracting shot is in there for time waiting for Serpents to recharge and then cast Incendiary again.

Feedback welcome as well as pointing out any mistakes I might have made.

Master Ketsu · Jun 18, 2007, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArKaiN

Care to add a calculation on DPS with kindle arrows+Nightmare weapon+Triple shot?

about the same as dual + savage since its still 3, but still its good for what it is. makes the spike a bit cleaner but...oh wait its a pve only skill....nevermind

save a skillslot, lose interupt utility...I guess their are a few builds that can go with it. the sin skill is still better by having more uses for it though.

knives · Jun 18, 2007, 05:39 AM // 05:39

In the past it was proven that Ranger primary barragers did more dmg than Assassin crit barragers. Now with Critical Agility introduced, would it significantly affect those numbers?

Div · Jun 18, 2007, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Triple shot isn't the greatest skill, but with kindle arrows and conjure flame, it can still do very massive damage. And who says you can't use triple shot with IAS stances? It's not a replacement, but merely to add on to the damage.

phool · Jun 18, 2007, 06:42 AM // 06:42

My ranger only has a 12 second critical agility but with some testing on the battle isle dummies at 16 marks from the height advantage I found it wasn't especially reliable even though they were only level 20. I guess triple shot would boost the chances of getting a crit if nothing else.